For Faith & Family | The Great Alcohol Debate | Comments http://faithandfamily.com/ This feed provides all comments on "The Great Alcohol Debate." en web-master@erlc.com ℗ & © 2010 ERLC Comment 1 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment1 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment1 I also understand where you are coming from, but I believe that we can honor God by making a responsible decision about weather we drink and if so how much. The warnings in the Bible, I believe, are warnings against abuse of alcohol.

]]> Thu, 07 Sep 2006 05:04:17 CST Comment 2 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment2 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment2 Also understanding, but do disagree about abstinence of all alcohol.  I believe, with the prominence that abstinence has taken in SB life, it seems more like a requirement for salvation rather then a viable and a possible wise lifestyle choice.  A legal burden on those of us who otherwise agree with SB stances on scripture and the reality of the most Holy & Loving God.  It would seem that we should promote an anti-gluttony lifestyle as well as I can think of 2 places in scripture where eating and drinking to excess are put in bad light.  Proverbs 23:20 & Matthew 11:19   Why does it seem that the most ardent prohibitionist are some of the most over weight people I know?  Not all, of course.  Again, I don’t disparage your choice not to drink.  I just wonder if we do a disservice by the degree which we promote abstinence over moderation and other sober moderate choices in life like the amount we eat and other actions we seem dismissive of like keeping fit.

]]> Tue, 26 Sep 2006 08:23:03 CST Comment 3 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment3 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment3 As a nurse, I have seen the tragedy of alcohol ABUSE, but have also seen that the abuse of almost anything (food, money, people, etc,)causes health and relationship problems and is a stumbling block to our witness.  I think that God has given us gifts to enjoy, but not to abuse.  If we can’t enjoy His gifts in appreciation to the Giver and not in abuse, we should refrain from enjoying them.  I think it is a mistake to single out one thing.  As I was raised SB, I found that people related my denomination to those who “don’t”.  I was always embarrassed by that.

]]> Sat, 07 Oct 2006 20:21:56 CST Comment 4 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment4 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment4 Being raised a Southern Baptist, it always made me laugh when my mother preached the evils of alcohol, even in moderation, while consuming enough food, at one sitting, to feed an army. To the gentleman who penned the above article, have you ever approched a brother or sister at a Baptist luncheon who overate and reminded them that they are an “ambassador of Christ” and to carefully consider their ways as Non-believers could be watching? I doubt it…overeating is so much more socially acceptable in the church. As a matter of fact, I think the Baptists are the reason for the advent of the industrial size disposable plate.

All things in moderation. Noah’s shame came not in growing the grapes, making the wine or drinking it, but in drinking to excess and passing out.

]]> Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:43:20 CST Comment 5 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment5 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment5 I don’t think any of us could be classified as a “responsible drinker”, as alcohol is a tool that Satan uses regularly to bring people down.  If any of us feel that we can drink responsibly, then Satan already has a hold on us with this lie.
Alcohol can’t be compared to food, as food can be good for us in the right manner and bad and for us when eating too much or things that’s aren’t good for our body.  Alcohol is never good. 
Anything that can alter the mind or body is never good, as it wouldn’t allow us to present our bodies as holy.  When we truly seek to be in the presence of a Holy God, then we’ll begin to understand why we can’t stand on middle ground.

]]> Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:59:01 CST Comment 6 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment6 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment6 As a licensed minister (SBC), I have seen goods and bads of rooting ourselves in traditional faith, but this seems more ceremonial and by my reading of the scriptures contradictory to the lifestyle and messages of Jesus (They called him a drunk you know, and he didn’t stop to see if that was a stumbling block for them), and also the other new testament writings on “freedom in consumption”. I respect personal decisions I just think we should have a little more grace with people. In dubiis libertas you know…

]]> Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:10:09 CST Comment 7 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment7 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment7 If a beliver is going to make a case and take a stand on any issue they should back it up with scripture instead of making a personal decision based on upon their own personal experience and that of others. I do not believe that Christ is more honored or glorified by a child of His who does not drink anymore than than He would be by a believer who does. It grieves me to see how dogmatic leaders of denominations can be on issues like this because control is difficult to let go. Yes there are warnings the Bible says concerning the drinking of alcohol and we are wise to obey them all.  In the end I prefer the grace of God to man’s legalism any day.

“He makes grass grow for the cattle and plants for a man to cultivate—bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread that sustains his heart.”

]]> Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:08:15 CST Comment 8 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment8 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment8 Bravo, Keith Miller….you could not have said it better.

]]> Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:41:55 CST Comment 9 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment9 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment9 Are we showing God’s grace to others by trying to create a law to live by? Isnt this the realm of the Pharisees?  Wasn’t Jesus’ first miracle turning water to wine?

I agree wholeheartedly with not drinking in excess. But wine has proven to be very good (health-wise) in many ways & yes, I can drink responsibly. Never more than one beer with a meal ( probably an average of one a month) and a small glass of wine average 2 or 3 a month).

As stated earlier, obesity is the accepted “drug of choice” to most churches. The related health & social issues of obesity have to be similar if not worse than alcohol. We “Christians” do love to point out the specks in someone elses eye.

]]> Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:35:20 CST Comment 10 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment10 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment10 Yes the bible has the words wine and fruit of the vine, but my understanding is that these words refer to unfermented grape juice.

]]> Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:56:07 CST Comment 11 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment11 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment11 Most of the responses so far have been in favor of a lifestyle where one drinks “responsibly.”  These arguments miss Dr. Land’s already stated concession that consumption alone is not a sin.  So what is it that Dr. Land is trying to point out?

It is that we have freedom - freedom to choose our actions - actions which others will be watching.  Yes, I am free to drink, but what precident does that set for my son, or my friend, or my neighbors?  Will they be able to rightly judge where to stop?  Or, is it better not to lay a stumbling stone in front of them?

Alcohol is not a necessity.  It is an option. For most men, it proves to be a distraction to doing what the Lord has called us to do.

The question is not whether alcohol is bad or good.  The question is whether or not you can put aside something which CAN be a distraction - whether it currently is or not.

The article above is not a new version of legalism, it is a call to be free of yet one more distraction.

]]> Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:01:21 CST Comment 12 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment12 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment12 So consumption alone in your closet is ok, but moderate social drinking is out, well maybe that is why we have alcoholics in the church and a culture of people afraid of alcohol.

And Clayton from my understanding a lack of preservatives in the first century gave grape juice about 7 minutes until alcohol was present, I’m not saying it was instant jager or anything but the whole grape juice thing is most likely just eisegesis, may I suggest a good home vinification kit to confirm this.

]]> Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:58:36 CST Comment 13 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment13 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment13 Where we drink, what we drink, and when we drink all play the most important part to the, “Is it wrong or is it a non-issue?”. I don’t, but I can, and am close to those that don’t, and can’t. I know many that do, and can’t.
First of all we never want to tempt our brother or sister. Secondly…What if you have that one alcoholic beverage, and then drive home. Is it worth it if you were stopped for just a tail light being out. If you would feel any tension or fear, then you might want to reconsider that drink. Thirdly…If you were to slam down a “little shooter” w/ lime and salt, Well…It might be difficult to justify that for medicinal purposes. If you feel drinking is an issue…Pray for wisdom, If a friend tells you, your drinking is an issue…Pray for thanksgiving, because they were strong enough to tell you. Personally I would perfer a trip to Starbuck’s, over any alcoholic beverage, but then you have that whole caffine thing to deal with.

]]> Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:20:17 CST Comment 14 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment14 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment14 “Yes, I am free to drink, but what precident does that set for my son, or my friend, or my neighbors?” I would say an excellent precedent or example you might be settting is to how to consume (drink, food, TV, etc) in moderation-self control.In a society that takes many things to excess, it would speak volumes.

]]> Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:38:23 CST Comment 15 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment15 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment15 Respectfully, to Christina Talley, to say that Satan uses alcohol as a tool to bring us down is true. He also uses sex, food,& prescription drugs, among other things. Doesn’t make sex, food and prescription drugs bad…when used in the manner in which God intended them. I choose to believe a Fruit of the Spirit is self control and in claiming that, I can most certainly, do most certainly, drink responsibly and have done so for many years. To say alchohol is never good is a fallacy; my doctor touts the heart-healthy benefits of ONE glass of red wine daily (of which I partake).

]]> Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:50:31 CST Comment 16 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment16 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment16 I see two arguments against abstinence. Drunkenness, not alcohol use, is condemned in scripture and (2)-preaching abstinence is legalism, making laws not based on scripture.  Both arguments ignore the reality of alcohol and sin.

I have never met a “responsible drinker” who won’t admit to at least one episode of intoxication. If we love Christ, we should be so horrified at even one foray into sin that we’d never touch the stuff. Why mess with something God calls a curse? (Prov 20:1)

If you love Christ, then do not be conformed to this world, flirting with sin through “social” drinking. It will lead you to sin, has probably done so already, and may very well lead a weaker brother to ruin. Is your “beer at the ball game” worth that? Where are your priorities, with Christ or with this world?

The Southern Baptists do well to exhort, (not command), their members to personal piety, including total abstinence from using alcohol as a beverage.

]]> Fri, 08 Dec 2006 07:59:36 CST Comment 17 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment17 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment17 You folks can debate all you want, but the fact remains that alcohol destroys family, I am married to an alcoholic who has many alcoholic associations.  It is a horrible dibilitating disease that I have watched tear a spiritual prayerful man down, and something that I don’t believe for one minute the Lord ever intended.  It boils down to choice, and when a person drinks to excess they’ve give up the right to choose because they are no longer in control of their own will.  Satan is.  Anything that results in the destruction of the home has to have come from Satan.

]]> Wed, 27 Dec 2006 17:42:47 CST Comment 18 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment18 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment18 Most of the responses here have been along the lines of “drink in moderation, don’t be drunk”.  If you feel that you must drink then why insist on
being a Southern Baptist? After all there are other
religions that have no problem with drinking, why
not join one of them? It’s simple, satan knows what a problem abstainers have been in the past and he needs to eliminate us as a force against his most useful tool for prying apart families and destroying lives.
I have NEVER seen recreational alcohol use do anyone any good. Watching “Cops” should show the damage it does to even a good home.I have never tried drinking, but never felt that I “missed out” on anything good. To argue for the use of something with so much potential for damage should make a Christian stop and ask himself why he’s doing so. It’s distressing that so many people in the church suddenly feel duty-bound to argue for it’s acceptance. Satan is the great deceiver and this is his most sucessfull lie so far.

]]> Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:07:21 CST Comment 19 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment19 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment19 Please be sure that I do not lie awake at night thinking of ways that I can argue for the “acceptance” of alchohol. In fact, it’s something I rarely think about at all. My gripe is with Christians who tout that any alcohol use at all is a sin (which is not Scriptural) and those who think that one can not be a responsible drinker. I also do not see the logic in the above statement “If you feel that you must drink then why insist on
being a Southern Baptist?”. I insist on being a Southern Baptist because one, I was raised Southern Baptist, two, my church home happens to be Southern Baptist, three, my Southern Baptist church home is a Bible-believing, Jesus-loving, people-loving church devoted to spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Alcohol has and does destroy many homes, no argument there. My arguement here again, is for moderation and the absence of legalism.

]]> Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:21:26 CST Comment 20 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment20 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment20 As a Christian who has partaken of alcoholic beverages for more than a decade, I can tell you it IS possible to exercise self-control and avoid drunkenness.  Not once have I become intoxicated, though I have 1 or 2 drinks almost daily.  I understand that I could never convince the wife of an alcoholic that drinking in any amount could be glorifying to God, but we must look to Scripture for guidance in this matter.  It seems clear that the Bible allows for moderate consumption of alcohol, while condemning it’s abuse.

As far as our witness is concerned, wouldn’t it be better for Christians to model before the world the virtue of self-control (moderation), rather than impose a legalistic demand that God Himself has not placed upon us?  Even the unbeliever can detect this hypocrisy as we add to what God already said in His word.

The bottom line is for us to respect each other’s decision to drink or abstain.  Let’s allow grace to flow freely toward each other.

Blessings.
Todd

]]> Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:58:36 CST Comment 21 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment21 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment21 I Respect Everyone’s Opinion on The Issue Of Alcohol. What I have recently learned and discovered about alcohol I would have to say that alcohol should not be consumed.  I agree that yes Satan does use this addiction and weakness to detroy our lives and that is what truly makes me want to stay away from it. Yes, There are many other things to to be addicted to as well.  It’s not just a matter of whether the Lord see’s it as sin, becouse he will forgive any sin, but just take a look at what it does to our youth that are not so strong yet in the Lord.  I choose not to drink, but I also know that I too have a weak side that could turn to it any day depending on my circumstances.  The blessing in recognizing this, is that I know the Lord and I choose to turn to him.  Some people don’t know Jesus and the damage is costly.  Alcohol is not worth the price some pay.

]]> Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:38:47 CST Comment 22 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment22 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment22 I respond to a comment by Judy Kratochvil back on 9/7/2006. While I do not profess to know the Bible as a scholar, I immediately thought of Luke when she spoke of the use of alcohol. If we study first the Gospel of Luke in 1:15 we see that when the angel spoke to John the Baptist’s father Zacharias- he mentioned that John would be great in the sight of the LORD. Also that he would not drink wine or strong drink and - here is the catch- he will be filled with the Holy Spirit. This to my understanding, tells us “if we are filled with the Holy Spirit” we should not drink alcohol. If one will also look at how Sampson “was to live” without alcohol. Remember during the LORD’s walk here on earth, few were filled with the Holy Spirit. Thank you.
PS I write because we are working to keep our county free of alcohol on Sundays and we are looking everyplace on earth for good support. tom doyle in western Maryland

]]> Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:21:30 CST Comment 23 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment23 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment23 John P (Jack) Winter, my name is Kimberly Loomis.  Nice to meet you.  Now you can say that you have met a drinker of alcohol who has NEVER gotten drunk.  God Bless!

Tom Doyle: really?  you’re working to keep our country free of alcohol on Sundays?  Like Mormons have done in Utah?  I guess you’d have to actually know the American culture to know that all your idea is going to do is further confirm in people’s minds that the church is a rule-ridden hypocrisy driven institution that they need to avoid.  I wish people would stop trying to legislate Christianity.  It’s Christ and the Holy Spirit that makes all things new, not laws.

]]> Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:58:54 CST Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:50:29 CST Comment 24 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment24 http://faithandfamily.com/fff/article/the-great-alcohol-debate#comment24 I wonder if many of the same arguments can be made against gun ownership by Christians.  I mean, we have all seen the damage firearms can and do cause and the cost associated with them.  What about vehicles, they can and do cause significant injury and death.  And don’t get me started on french fries.  Hey, I’ve seen the talk shows.  Enjoy what God gave us, don’t abuse it.  I cannot tell you how many Christians I meet that are sick and tired of the suffocating nature of the church. I actually had a woman give me a pamphlet telling me that alcohol was wrong because “nothing rotten would enter the kingdom of God”.  Her rationale was amazing.  Alcohol is fermented therefore rotten, therefore, not Godly. I wanted to go over to her house to check for cheese, soy sauce, yoghurt, vinegar, and all manner of contraband. And I love the argument that is used as a carte blanche, don’t cause a brother to stumble.  It is both convenient and all encompassing.

]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:50:29 CST